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September 02, 2010, 06:33:44 PM *
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Author Topic: Talking OOP still equals you're screwed!  (Read 305 times)
Keith Folger
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Keith Folger


« on: March 10, 2010, 04:50:55 AM »

http://solarinc.org/clanthiaforum/index.php?topic=3016.0

Hey, everyone.

I thought it a good time to remind all the players out there once again that it is COMPLETELY unacceptable and cheesy to talk about In Play events and actions Out of Play.  Too many times I have heard players rightfully complain that they had to “ignore” plotlines, player actions, and IP information because they were given too much information OOP from another player.  For example, let’s say that Tim the Druid just got involved in a super-secret were-boar plotline, and managed to get himself turned into a were-boar.  Pretty cool, right?  Well, the ONLY way Tim’s player can proceed without cheating is to NEVER tell anyone OOP that it happened.

“Wait a minute, how is that CHEATING?!?”

Here’s how.  Lets say that Tim’s player goes and blabs about his cool new IP powers to other players OOP.  Now let’s say that unbeknownst to Tim’s player, one of the people he tells OOP has a character who we’ll name Kevin who hates and hunts down all were-boars.  Now, even though Kevin would have never suspected Tim of being a were-boar, suddenly Kevin’s player knows this information, and since there is no way for Kevin’s player to wipe his OOP memory, he is forever stuck with knowing that.  Kevin’s player has two choices:  either attempt to ignore what he has heard and compartmentalize the info, or he can simply take the info In Play.

“Which is the right choice?”

The ONLY choice Kevin has is to take what he has heard IN PLAY.  This isn’t metagaming.  It isn’t cheating, and it’s not a new rule, either.  Those players who think it is acceptable to ruin other player’s in-play perspective and fun by blabbing Out of Play will ONLY be discouraged from doing so with a zero-tolerance approach to OOP talk between PCs.  To quote Mr. Pontus Leander:

“Years ago it became apparent that there simply cannot be any courtesy or protection given to players who talk OOP. Too many among us use OOP talk to cut the IP tension--to confess, to brag, or to manipulate. However, that tension is the very lifeblood of SOLAR; the tension is what makes passions run hot and what makes our SOLAR experiences seem so real. As such, and just like the phys-reps for IP magic items, we don't "own" IP information in the way that we own our costuming or character concepts. It belongs to the game and it is a privilege that any of us even get to be a part of it.

Let me press this point, too: there simply cannot be any gray area on this. OOP talk is both contagious and toxic, and the only known remedy for it is to expose it by aggressively taking OOP information IP. Period. End of story. Else, our players who are more susceptible to temptation will again start using OOP talk to manipulate others' beliefs and actions, to test out the consequences of something they might otherwise do IP, to cut the IP tension for themselves, or to reap the social benefits of a story at the expense of others' sense of magic and wonder.”

This is a very serious issue, and this kind of OOP talk has already done a great deal of damage to the in-play atmosphere.  If this is your first time hearing about SOLAR’s official policy on this subject, then understand that the ONLY way to insure that your IP secrets remain secret IP is to NEVER TELL ANYONE OOP.  Come on, folks!  Who would want to play SOLAR if you already had all the answers?  Without the mystery, SOLAR might as well be an AOL roleplaying chatroom.
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Cathbad
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 09:17:58 AM »

According to this OOP info is permissible IP. I understand this. However, you say there is no gray area. Well what happens when a character kills another character and the victim uses that OOP knowledge to garner support against the murderer -or- if the victim blabs that OOP knowledge and someone else uses that knowledge to hunt and track down the murderer.

According to these rules that is fair game and it doesn't seem right. That OOP knowledge belongs to the murder in my opinion and as long as he doesn't say anything he should be provided protection.
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Maelyndra
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Amy Laine


« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2010, 09:50:43 AM »

Your specific situation falls under the same "no gray area".  PVP is a nigh-sacred element of SOLAR.  It's one of the more thrilling aspects of the game.  You can find many threads dedicated to this topic on the forum.  One of the more notable being:  http://solarinc.org/clanthiaforum/index.php?topic=4545.0

If a murder victim (someone who is IN PLAY and gets killed and dissipates) uses widgity cheese (i.e. telling people what happened OOP, or magically "knowing" or being "suspicious" of his killer without due IP cause) to locate/identify their killer, that person is CHEATING.  The character loses 30 mintues of memory.  Period.  End of story.  If they complain to their friend OOP, and then the friend uses sketchy tactics to identify their friend's killer, that's equally cheating.    
"Then can you tell us why we found a size 9-1/2 combat boot print at the scene!!??!?"

If you have recently made a new bff and at some point during a field battle he drags your bleeding out body off the field and deals the final killing blow, you would have no reason to stop talking to him or to stop being his bff.  Sure, you're probably going to be seething mad as a player, but your character would only remember being on the field of battle, then resurrecting.  
...unless someone who was on the field tells you that the last time they saw you, your bff had pulled you away saying he was going to heal you.  That's good IP reason to be suspicious.  However, it's unlikely that people would have noticed this in the middle of a field battle, and you wouldn't be able to explicitly target those folks whom you know were near you when he dragged you off; you'd just have to ask everyone you see, or start at your most trustworthy friend and work your way down the list.

The same thing is applicable to people who die (whether by murder or monster) and then somehow "stumble" upon the exact location of their death so as to retrieve their magic items, or they somehow get information from a "mysterious source" as far as someone who has their stuff.  It's not right.  Don't do it.

If your character is murdered, you should never talk about the details of the crime scene.  Ever.  IP or OOP.
"I don't know what happened... I know I was sent by my Baron to go fetch someone from Darkholme, but that's the last thing I remember" is fine.  
"Dude, it was such BS.  I walked up to the door and knocked and Necro Johnny answered with an imbue death because they were rolling the cabin" is not.

However, if Necro Johnny imbue deaths SomeGuy, and then goes and shares the dramatic story of his evil triumph OOP, "Oh, man, you should have seen his face! He didn't know what hit him!"  then people he told (or, if it was loud enough, people who overheard) can take that information IP because Necro Johnny should know better than to tell his own secrets.

Edit:
OOP knowledge is different from OOP talking.  If you see someone bringing a poison lab to logistics for check-in, that's OOP knowledge, but you can't use that IP.    Knowing who killed you is OOP knowledge, but it's different from the guy bragging OOP that he killed you.  Seeing someone putting on their vampire fangs in the communal bathroom is different from the guy talking about his contract with Camillo over dinner at Appleby's.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 10:02:02 AM by Maelyndra » Logged

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Perry Brasscobble
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2010, 09:55:30 AM »

According to this OOP info is permissible IP. I understand this. However, you say there is no gray area. Well what happens when a character kills another character and the victim uses that OOP knowledge to garner support against the murderer -or- if the victim blabs that OOP knowledge and someone else uses that knowledge to hunt and track down the murderer.

According to these rules that is fair game and it doesn't seem right. That OOP knowledge belongs to the murder in my opinion and as long as he doesn't say anything he should be provided protection.
"Killing someone" is not "talking OOP." Killing someone is an IP action and should be taken as such. If you blab about who you were killed by OOP, you are a dirty rotten cheater of the lowest variety.
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Cynath
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Ryan Bonner


« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2010, 10:11:04 AM »

I wanted to reply to that question, but couldn't think of how best to answer it. Good work Amy Smiley
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Rob Moran
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 10:13:30 AM »

The spirit and point of this rule is protect people and their characters from having to ignore events, goings-on, intrigue, and plot lines their character would otherwise be highly interested in IP because someone couldn't keep their mouth shut OOP. This rule is meant to protect IP dirty dealing, treachery, murder as much as it is to protect those trying to find out about it IP. Fault rests by the person who blabbed out of play, be it the murder or murderee.

One final note is role play with people you know that can keep IP and OOP distinctly separated. SOLAR is self-policing in this regard, if other players start to realize a player makes poor choices about what they talk about OOP, you better believe that  player won't be invited to go along on those super-secret save the world modules/encounters, be involved in super secret baronial matters, or become a member of a secret organization.
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Thomas Wieman
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 11:56:44 AM »

I think common sense just needs to be applied and a little thought used and most questions on the matter are self answering. Also the game has been around for a long time, all the tricks and loop holes have been found and staff will know exactly when someone is cheating or taking it IP. Just use your noodles and I think we will all have many more awesome times in this awesome game.
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Jen H.
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Jen Hartshorn


« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 06:20:18 PM »

   
"Then can you tell us why we found a size 9-1/2 combat boot print at the scene!!??!?"

CSI-EH FTW? What what?
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